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tmorrison
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
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# Posted: 23 Jul 2009 09:32
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President Obama is truly presenting a sound plan to revamp the Health care system of the United States.
Its about time. 
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mountainmom5
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 2058
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# Posted: 24 Jul 2009 08:52
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Ewww - it is SCARY stuff.... did you know that if that bill passes, they can kill our little ones up to two years old?? Uhuh.
Oh, and they can take your grandma or grandpa and decide if they are a valuable citizen of our country... if not, they will deny them healthcare.... oh and if you happen to be too fat, you will not be able to get health care either... just so happens that you did not take care of your body correctly, so you won't qualify for the new health care plan... better read the fine print, bro!
I had a friend in Canada where they happen to have a similar health plan that is being proposed here in the states.... he was terminally ill with cancer and an operation coulda saved his life, but because of the shortage of doctors (wonder why that is??) he was putting on a waiting list, and yep, you guessed it, he died....Here we can still go to a different doctor or pay for better care and GET HELP... there he was stuck.... there was nothing he or his family could do about it ...
Okay - I will get off my soapbox now - all I can say is READ THE SMALL PRINT!
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Posts: 2232
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# Posted: 24 Jul 2009 10:10
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tmorrison: President Obama is truly presenting a sound plan to revamp the Health care system of the United States. Its about time.
Hi Tom,
It's not even close to sound. As M5 pointed out, it has several major and unacceptable flaws - repulsive flaws, in fact.
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getagrip
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 1936
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# Posted: 24 Jul 2009 18:58
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My friend is from Canada, and he was saying that you have to wait a LOOOOOONG time for elective surgeries, and as mountainmom pointed out, you can die in the process of waiting for treatment - some Canadians have to pay to get their surgeries done in the US so they won't die!
One thing I was curious about is what this will mean for health insurance companies...anybody know what the implications are?
I don't think its a bad idea to give free health care to individuals who cannot afford health insurance, but if the health care bill passes, it could really screw up the relatively good (but not perfect) healthcare system we have now.
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tmorrison
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
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# Posted: 24 Jul 2009 19:36
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So how do you all propose to to fix the 50-60 millions uninsured Americans, who at the end of the day still place a massive burden on the Tax Payer (Medicaid and Medicare).
These same 50-60 million uninsured people still need or use the health care system, but who pays their bill? hmmmm - The Taxpayer!
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tmorrison
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
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# Posted: 24 Jul 2009 19:38 · Edited by: tmorrison
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mountainmom5: Ewww - it is SCARY stuff.... did you know that if that bill passes, they can kill our little ones up to two years old?? Uhuh.
Please point me to the sub-section in the bill that accurately justifies your statement above? A bill that will kill a two year old...What??? Not in the United States 
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mountainmom5
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 2058
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# Posted: 24 Jul 2009 22:56
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tmorrison: A bill that will kill a two year old...What??? Not in the United States
I may have been a tad bit on the dramatic side there but here is a link to some of what seems to be coming down the pipe, all connected to Obamas new health care plan...
http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/
tmorrison: So how do you all propose to to fix the 50-60 millions uninsured Americans, who at the end of the day still place a massive burden on the Tax Payer (Medicaid and Medicare).
I don't disagree that a health care plan could work to everyone's benefit but not the way it is being proposed under the bill we have now...
BUT hey this is a WORK AT HOME forum and I apologize for stirring the can of worms
I will try to not get involved in politics on this forum again and save it for what it is intended to be - a place where we can learn together about ways to make money from home - and let others solve the world's problems.... lol
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tmorrison
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
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# Posted: 25 Jul 2009 00:33 · Edited by: tmorrison
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mountainmom5: I may have been a tad bit on the dramatic side there but here is a link to some of what seems to be coming down the pipe, all connected to Obamas new health care plan...
I can't believe that there are some people in this world that fall for this propaganda. LOL!
I am also still trying to find where the heck in the bill that it states it will kill 2 year olds...lol
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A8ch
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 615
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# Posted: 25 Jul 2009 02:33 · Edited by: A8ch
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mountainmom5: BUT hey this is a WORK AT HOME forum and I apologize for stirring the can of worms.
...and any can that has the slightest link to anything political will certainly be murky to begin with, and besides worms, will contain a variety of pandora surprises.
The harsh reality is that any health care bill that passes, regardless of how much of an improvement it may be over what's available currently, will still be viewed as inadequate by those segments of the population that believe they are underserved.
Regardless of how sweet it may be to the palate of the majority, there will be those who only notice the bitter aftertaste.
Hermas
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getagrip
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 1936
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# Posted: 26 Jul 2009 00:44
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tmorrison: These same 50-60 million uninsured people still need or use the health care system, but who pays their bill? hmmmm - The Taxpayer!
And the tax payer would still pay their bill if a national health care plan was instituted...
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tmorrison
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
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# Posted: 26 Jul 2009 07:03
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getagrip: And the tax payer would still pay their bill if a national health care plan was instituted...
Exactly...Fix it in the front end and know exactly what the costs will be. Might as well cover everybody properly.
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yahia
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Joined: 8 Oct 2006
Posts: 113
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# Posted: 26 Jul 2009 10:11 · Edited by: yahia
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I don't know exactly what's in Obama's bill, but if it is any close to the Canadian health care system (which I don't think any one in the world would copy) please guys do what you can to stop it.
My wife has to wait 6 months after her accedent to have an MRI, just to decide what to do next. In Egypt (the country that's is till on the American aid list) you get your MRI the same day you know you need it and people are still complaining it is not fast enough to save lives.
The surgery that my wife might need is a very minor surgery that in Egypt it takes half an hour to do and patient goes home the same day, and is being carried out every where (including in private clinics that is affordable to the vast majority of the population that earns under $1 per day). Here in Canada there is a 12-18 months waiting list.
How rediculus is that?
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yahia
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Joined: 8 Oct 2006
Posts: 113
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# Posted: 26 Jul 2009 11:19
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After a thought, if you guys in the US copy the Canadian health system you'll do it right. You already have doctors.
Our problem is the shortage of doctors and health care professionals, and the reason is that not enough Canadians are able to be doctors, and the immigrant doctors are not allowed to practice medicine in Canada. Imagine a 55 year old ophthalmologist required to get through the medicine school, residency, and years of post graduate studies to be able to do what she was doing in Russia.
And those who make it prefer to cross the border and work in the US because of the Taxes.
In Toronto there are more doctors driving caps than seeing patients in the hospitals. This is our real problem.
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tmorrison
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
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# Posted: 26 Jul 2009 18:14
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yahia: After a thought, if you guys in the US copy the Canadian health system you'll do it right. You already have doctors.
I appreciate the comment. I do hope the United States Get it right. Nothing is perfect in this world, but I just hope for better Health Care System for all.
I think importantly most of all is to cover young children across America.
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Joined: 22 Sep 2007
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# Posted: 28 Jul 2009 08:42
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The problem is the cost of insurance and the medical bills.
To fix the problem, we have to properly address the root cause. To put a band-aid on a gushing artery is an improper solution.
The question is why is insurance so expensive and why are medical bills outrageously high?
- Why are we billed $10 for a hospital-dispensed aspirin?
- Why are we forced to pay for hospital meals even if we refuse to order them?
- Why are hospital rooms $800+ per day?
- Why are we charged by the hour for emergency room visits when we have no control over how long it takes an E.R. doctor to see us and discharge us?
It's not like medical care is a luxury - we all need it every year.
The more they charge, the less often patients will be able to pay their bills. So, charging more actually works against hospital income levels.
It's not working.
It part of it due to the fact that hospital execs get paid too much and get too many perks?
Is medical education and O.J.T. too expensive (they have to get their investments back!)?
Would caps on salary and charges work? Should it be the government that monitors and enforces the caps?
Regardless of the answers to the above questions, the prices of insurance and medical bills must come down without affecting the quality of care. Few can afford medical care today and hospitals can't afford to be stiffed.
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mountainmom5
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 2058
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# Posted: 28 Jul 2009 09:35
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Thanks NS - I totally agree with you and just hope whatever happens, it will be to actually lower health care without all the other garbage.
I am all for that!
It would be really great to be able to buy stuff over the counter like you can in Mexico and Canada. That would save a lot on Dr bills for our family, as quite often I KNOW what we need without having to go see a doc - but we have to go pay high dollar to see a dr just so HE can tell me what I already know and prescribe what I can't buy outright. lol
So, yeah, if we can somehow cut those costs and make meds more readily available for us, it will be great.
I realize the big excuse for not being able to buy meds over the counter is because of the overdose of drugs, but heck, those guys will find a way to get what they want anyways... it has been proven with the meth drug.
But anyways, I am off to write more content for my website... I am trying to be good and not get too involved in politics on here...good discussion,though!
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mtinsdale
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Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 15
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# Posted: 28 Jul 2009 17:03
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It would please me if the bill would clean up what I call the re-diagnosis that happens, just because Medicare will pay for it. Why should a person have to have three of the same test done just because they were sent to three different specialist? Why can't the test results be stored in a database and be available to any doctor or specialist, instead of them having to run separate, but same test?
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karenpore
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Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 7
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2009 06:17
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I totally agree! Something has GOT to be done. Sitting back and letting this continue to happen and blocking things by happening tell people we are going to kill 2 year olds doesn't solve the problem either. I am 32 years old and have watched my health care plan..just the same plan through my husbands work..a huge corporation go up over 200% in the last 8 years. Even those of us who are insured are getting to the point that we can't afford the insurance much less the 10% bill of a hospital when you have a baby that includes a $17 toothbrush when I brought my own!
Something has to be done. Whether you agree with Obama or not isn't the issue..lets start taking some steps to fixing some of what is wrong with this country. There is no reason we should rank #18 in healthcare! All of these problems that we all have like multiple tests, hospital costs, insurance costs when you are in perfect health are hurting the average family. It's time something actually gets done about this.
Just my two sense..lol.
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FreeCashMan
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Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 266
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2009 11:40
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Any system that strongly and properly promotes Preventive care would lead to being a good system. Too many ailments brought on by poor diet and the bad commercialized food. Do something to routinely clean your system out. Like changing oil on a car. You've got to take the time to flush out the old to maintain a proper healthy body.
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mountainmom5
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 2058
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# Posted: 31 Jul 2009 10:54
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Here are some highlights on the proposed health care plan...
http://health-plan-exposed.blogspot.com/
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joanpeterson
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Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 129
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# Posted: 31 Jul 2009 18:17
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It is hard to know how one can fund healthcare and provide every service.
Canada's system may be free but at what cost? All our hospitals are understaffed and overcrowded with patients. Saskatchewan recently came out with a document which did not say hallway health care was bad but rather how hallway health care was to work. ( Hallway health care is caring for patients in the hallways due to lack of space in patient rooms.)
Alberta now have a number of doctors who have removed themselves from the public health system and set up clinics where people must pay $ 3600 plus per year to see the doctor. These clinics will not see patients who do NOT pay such a fee.
Recently with cutbacks in Alberta health care, a number of colon cancer patients were told they would have to wait at least two weeks for surgery. Two weeks could literally mean the difference between living and dying.
In Alberta, cataract surgeries have been delayed. Basically, the government wants you blind before they will remove your cataracts. Obviously that means more people will pay out of pocket for cataract removal, rather than wait to go blind.
Can the US come up with a system that works long term? That remains to be seen but lessons can definitely be learned by looking at the system in Canada - definitely in crisis mode.
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coffee
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Joined: 9 Feb 2009
Posts: 48
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2009 12:16
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I think like in most areas of life, you always hear about the worst scenario. For example in Michael Moore's Sicko. There was a guy who was married to a nurse, had insurance but the insurance company thought the treatment wasn't a sure thing. So, the insurance company wouldn't cover the bill for the surgery. And he died.
I live in Canada and never had a friend or friend of a friend who died because they were on a wait list.
Through my life I had a broken arm, broken ankle (required two surgeries), had my tonsils take out, appendix taken out, had radiation for a thyroid problem and had a baby. I didn't pay for any of it.
Canada's health care may not be perfect. But personally, I never has a problem with wait time and I really like I can go to the doctor or hospital and not have to worry about cost or wondering if my insurance company will cover it.
Following in the words of tmorrison "I just hope for better Health Care System for all"
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mountainmom5
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 2058
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2009 12:26
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Thanks Coffee! I would love to have a health care system that worked like that....but I have to admit that I am very leery of Obama's plans...
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westfam11
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Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Posts: 491
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2009 19:31 · Edited by: westfam11
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I am very leery of Obama's health care plans also.
The government can't handle Medicare, Social Security,
cash for klunkers (this program ran out of money in one
week), so why does everyone think the government
can fix health care?
The current system is not perfect but the government
does not need to take it over, there are other ways.
It all boils down to losing more freedom. Going
down the road of socialism. I personally don't
want to lose any more of my freedoms.
I have been watching this thread, trying not to
say anything, but I just had to give my opinion.
Becky
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mountainmom5
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 2058
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2009 23:12
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westfam11: I have been watching this thread, trying not to say anything,
You did better than I did to keep quiet as long as you have!
I plan to not say much from here on out...
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ZiggyZoo
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Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 64
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2009 16:58
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Ok you guys ... let me put a spoke into the works
Here is South Africa .... um i dont even think we have a national health care plan !!!
If you are not employed by a company it is extremely difficult to get medical insurance. Self employed people have to prove proof of income to their satisfaction before you can qualify.
If you have not had medical insurance for a period of 3 years when you do join one you have to wait 12 months before they will authorize any major expenditure for operations and the like (even dentistry - all you can get is a cleaning during that 12 month period)
The medical insurance companyies have various plans from basic hospital cover to comprehensive cover. Still, if you are having an operation or need to be admited to hospital they have to authorize it and if they feel its not necessary (never mind what your doctor says) then sorry for you but you have to pay for it yourself.
Then looking at those people who cant afford medical insurance, which is the majority of south africans unfortunately. They can go any hospital as long as they are prepared to pay the full costs up front. If you are brought in through emergency to a private hospital and you dont have medical aid cover you are immediately transfered to a state hospital.
State hospitals are run by the government and the staff are hugely under paid. Result .... none of them care about their work and certainly not about their patients. You would be horrified to hear what the mortality rate is in our state hospitals. I would rather die in the street than go to them!
But what can you expect from a country who thinks that AIDS can be cured by eating Rhubarb!!!!!!!
Sigh .... i am going to bed this is way to depressing
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mountainmom5
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 2058
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2009 17:08
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ZiggyZoo: But what can you expect from a country who thinks that AIDS can be cured by eating Rhubarb!!!!!!!
You gotta be kidding me - but really, I guess it doesn't matter what country you are from, there are always those strange beliefs.... you know how the little kerosene lamps have the glass chimneys on them??
Well, my mom happened to believe that if you broke it and the hole was in the shape of a D, there would be a death in the family - believe me ALL the chimneys I broke growing up were shaped in a ghastly D, and I broke my share as that was all we had for lighting in our room at night....
I agree, national health care is a depressing subject - I think I have way too much more important stuff to do than spend a lot of time on this thread! although I have to admit, I do like a good hearty discussion at times.
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