Discussion in 'Business Opportunities and Programs Reviews' started by jch02140, Jan 21, 2006.
Does anyone heard or been into the business before? Any opinion would be greatful...
I'm in the business - great company if you have the money for the start up. You'll make so much more than what you have to initially put in. Let me know if you have more questions.
What are the start-up costs? I heard somewhere that it was $9,900? Is there a cheaper way?
Sounds suspiciously like a pyramid scheme. The first few thousand that get in on it early will prosper but the late comers will be left out. Doesn't sound very Christain to me.
Don't be involved in this!!! I know of people who have had a BAD experience. Stay away.
Yofiona, would you care to elaborate? I'd be interested to know if you PERSONALLY know anyone who has had a BAD experience with Advantage Conferences. If so, what specifically was bad about their experience? Thanks!
As long as we are promoting our own opportunities and saying that all others are inferior, I would like to introduce everybody looking at
Liberty League international | advantage conferences | prosperity automated system | Emerald passport | etc. to take a serious look at the 1-up offered with the Mentors on a Mission training course. Taking and selling this course will equip anyone to succeed with any of these higher-dollar programs, no kidding. We show you how to do real serious marketing and I NEVER HAVE TO BUY LEADS and I can get tons of people calling me if I want. Its very well put together and consistently over-delivers. Its really your best option if you are just getting started in Direct sales.
I wish I had found mentors before I put 10k into another company.
It would have equipped me for faster success there. Here's my phone number 310.455.1751
Yet another shameless plug for Mentors on a Mission. We are introducing a new automated marketing system where a team of professional closers will do all follow up. It is similar to the PAS system, but overcomes marketing problems associated with that one.
Those who take the course before the end of August will be pre-qualified for the new marketing system and get it for free. A very good deal indeed. Go ahead, pass on this on. Plan on banging your head against the floor many times come October, though, when you see the potential too late and decide to come in at the $4000 level and have to pass up your first sale. Oooh that hurts!
Run from Advantage Conferences as fast as you can.
Only a very very few ever get their money back. It cost me thousands of dollars to find out.
I won't promote their program because of my conscience.
Advantage Conferences just like these other programs will work if you work it.
The only reason people aren't successful as I've found with anyone of (some programs are better than others) these programs is because they either didn't work it hard, their heart wasn't in it, or both.
I have worked with people that worked hard, but their heart wasn't in it and don't think the other person on the line can't read that!
My 2 Cents...
My concern and question with AdvConf is... what is the product? They say it's this conference where you learn how to think like a millionaire. But, almost everyone attending the conference is in the business. They paid the $10k for a conference ticket to start earning their $7k checks.
From my standpoint, it just seems like the old chain-letter scam telling you to "send $1 to the ten people on your list and put your name at the bottom of the list when you send the letter." I don't really see this as a wealth-generating program... but a wealth reallocation program. I am getting rich off of other hard-working folks scraping up $10k to buy their hopes and dreams.
It may happen in the future, but for right now... no one can tell me that there are businessmen paying the $10k just to attend the conf for a weekend of educational seminars. It's pretty-much all marketing reps. So again, where is the product? It's just shuffling money from your pocket to mine...
But it does work, the company is solid, money is paid out , and hard work is rewarded greatly.
It's the ethics that troubles me. I'd appreciate any feedback or insight...
It a bit of a chicken and the egg question... lets see if I can articulate what I mean.
-In order to "be" wealthy we must first think like the wealthy.
-Wealthy thinking people are happy to spend money on education to become wealthier.
-If we want to become wealthy, we must first overcome resistance to doing the things wealthy people do, like attend high-dollar seminars, etc...
-Thus by taking the obvious actions of wealthy people we establish ourselves as those who " be and do" and therefore may "have" wealth. Law of Attraction cropping up here.
Worth The Money?
The question is whether the conferences are worth the money. If the conference costs ten grand and I make 100k from what I learned there, its clearly a wise investmestment.
The critical mistake many people make when getting involved witrh 1-up and 2-up programs is seeing the sales of the program as their new "passport to prosperity". These programs can be very useful for generating cash-flow, but it takes marketing skill to locate other participants.
I promote this stuff, not Advantage conferences, but other ones. I like the business model... But I have willingly blown sales myself by refusing to coddle new potential customers into feeling "safe" - ie. offering them some sort of emotional guarrantee that they will not lose their money with the business...
"that is entirely dependent on the diligence and quality of your efforts," I tell them, more or less. A professional income in the field is only merited by those who commit to a professional level of skill development (personal development too, ie. mindset, apparently the forte of Advantage Conferences) and then follow through and market in a consistent manner.
What is A GUMP?
There is a term:
which means people who can be sold these things because they have $$$ signs on their eyeballs and may easily be coaxed into making an emotional decision. Starting a business entails risk, and thats always an emotional thing, as is the idea of making 5 figures a month for many people.
There is no doubt that many top recruiters for 1-up and 2-up programs actively engage in some form of GUMP hunting... ie. enrolling people quickly based on reassurances or flat-out charisma.
The ethical, I feel, though less profitable way to do this, is to be adamant about the level of marketing skill it requires to make a six figure income with these things. It is very attainable, but not for everybody.
I would be very surprised to see people of only average intelligence succeed with these programs. Success as a marketer and doing this type of phone work requires, I feel, a level of mental acuity and drive that is... Above Average.
I have been reading through these posts about the Advantage Conferences and I will offer a pastor's perspective here. In America we have lost our minds. We have put the pursuit of wealth and prosperity in the name of God on our fireplace mantels and refrigerators and that is our idol. God will prosper some who are able to handle and utilize the wealth He gives them to do His work in the world (J.C. Penney comes to mind). However do not buy into the ludicrous notion that it is God's desire that we be rich. It is not a Biblical notion. A famous musician, Rich Mullins, once wrote "the hope of the whole world rests on the shoulders of a homeless man". That homeless man was, of course, Jesus. God calls us to pursue Him in all that we do and with all that we are. Attending and selling conferences that teach you to "think like a millionaire" are not Christian, and yet Advantage Conferences marketing scheme is clearly directed at Christians. If God were holding a conference today, He would not be teaching you to think like a millionaire He would be teaching you to think like He does. It further baffles me how Americans so diligently pursue being rich and yet the Word of God says that "it is harder for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven than for a camel to get through the eye of a needle." Further, the Gospel tells us that love of money is a root of many kinds of evil and that we cannot serve two masters. I have many friends who are millionaires and more than a few of them have a pretty obvious love of money. What is the purpose of this? Simply that I know some very desperate person is going to come across the Advantage Conferences stuff or something similar and they will borrow the $5,000 or $7,000 or whatever they need to have a chance to become rich and it will drive them further into debt in the process. If you want a real, Godly, Biblically-based plan for wealth, I will give it to you for free. Here it is:
Give 10% (at minimum) of anything you ever earn to God. If you earn a dollar, give a dime.
Put 10% of what you earn in savings. If you earn a dollar, save a dime.
Never borrow money for anything that doesn't appreciate in value. In our country that fairly well limits you to real estate and rare coins (if you happen to be a numismologist). Follow these three simple, God-based rules and you will never have financial issues.
God bless and I pray that you keep a clear head and make wise decisions!
P.S. -- If any of you Advantage Conference folks out there are reading this and you worked hard to become rich that you may be more able to give to God's work, I run a homeless and runaway teen ministry in Grand Junction Colorado and you are more than welcome to give some of those millions to us. Check us out at [Link removed - Admin]
I won't debate theology with you pastor, but in most holy books its mentioned at least in passing that the faithful can expect their flocks to increase et al. that translates into: those who follow the faith will enjoy prosperity and wealth (though in Biblical times that meant a very different thing than it does today).
I am not defending Advantage Conferences or anybody who uses God to sell a product, but there are a lot of God-loving people in the industry who could argue wholeheartedly with your assertion that it is ridiculous that God would want us to be rich. And some of them could quote chapter-and-verse to you.
Dani Johnson is the example that comes to mind.
Your intentions are clearly well-placed, but your interpretation of scripture is just that - your interpretation.
I too am a Pastor as well as a trained Christian Financial Counselor, and a 18-yr senior management veteran of corporate america prior to following the call to full-time ministry. So for my part, the Bible's teaching on wealth is not in question... and is not what I wanted to open for discussion here. My apologies if my post was misconstrued.
I simply am having trouble with calling this a "business" with a "product." To me, it seems this is a revision of the old chain-letter scam where you send a list of people's names to 10 people, send a $1 to each person on the list, and your $10-$20 investment gets you $1000's in return as the chain grows and you start getting envelopes with $1 in them.
For Adv Conf, if I pay $10k, the guy that 'recuited' me gets a fat $7k check. In order for me to make money, I find another guy to pay his $10k, and I get my $7k check. And, every time I get someone to pay the $10k, I get a $7k check, over and over again.
I am struggling from the ethical standpoint... where is the product and what is the business? It's just a system to reallocate money and make people richer like the old chain-letter scam. Sure, conferences giving excellent advice that can save a businessperson tens-of-thousands are well-worth a significant attendance fee. BUT, the actual cost of AC conferences is NOT WORTH $10K. Only $3k goes to the company and the other $7k goes to the reps. So it's not about a "product" teaching wealth, it comes back to being about rellocating wealth. Which to me, seems unethical in any manner in which you look at it... unless someone can explain the process to me in a better way in which my opinion can be swayed.
I recently saw a weekend-long Tony Robbins seminar only cost a couple-thousand-dollars to attend. I'm sure other similar events with John Maxwell, and others would all fall into the same priceline.
My name is Craig Malisow, and I'm a reporter with the Houston Press, a weekly paper (www.houstonpress.com). I'm working on a story about Advantage Conferences and was wondering if there were folks in the Houston or Dallas areas who have had experience with them. If so, could you please contact me at craig.malisow[at]houstonpress.com, or at 713.280.2481? I'm just trying to get as much info as possible.
Thanks for your time,
There are some trainers that fall into a considerably higher-end category. While spending $500-1000 per day for a training seminar is considered "high-end" some of these super-sharp business gurus charge as much as $20k for a weeklong workshop.
Even people who are making multiple six-figure incomes as success coaches will pay more than they themselves charge to another coach.
There is really no end to it. There are people out there who are paying thousands of dollars an hour for one-on-one coaching. And the fact that they pay for it determines its value.
Money is not, actually, real. It is a fiction people sort of agree on in order to barter goods and services more efficiently. All monetary values are functions of that agreement ie. one day of labor by a child in a Nike sweatshop in China is worth $.35 for the child. the product is marked up to accomadate the distribution costs, etc. and finally the wholesale price is more or less doubled by the retailer. Thus the pair of shoes that cost ten cents to make sells for $85.oo in the USA.
I could go on, but I think you can get the point.
Malibumentor... thanks, that's a great example. And I see your point perfectly... the cost is a relative thing and hard to fix a value on it. True "VALUE" is even harder to fix because that is a subjective issue. But at least you only bought those nike's if you could afford it, and in the end, you have a pair of sneaks for your money.
Let's say I'm still in the corporate world enjoying a six-fig-plus income. I have the need and means to purchase a $3000 weekend seminar, or maybe even some personal coaching. That's part of making me even more successful. From this standpoint, the AC training is great and it's a marketable product. I could afford the training, and in the end, I gained valuable knowlege to make me more successful... immediately.
BUT, most everyone getting involved IS NOT in a position to need and afford $10k worth of success training. They are buying in to a system for generating wealth... and that seems to be who is filling most of the seats at their annual seminars. So they bought a 'product' they probably could not afford, and the only way that they will see immediate returns on their investment is ONLY IF others continue to buy into the money-making-system. If the latter part does not happen, then these folks just bought $10k worth of training to hopefully give them a more positive outlook on being a mailman, a mechanic, a dentist, a housewife, etc. Which, is certainly not a bad thing. We all need to see ourselves as vitally important and successful no matter what we do. But was the 'product' worth $10k to them?
I can listen to Joel Osteen or Robert Schuller for free on TV, pickup a John Maxwell book for $30, get a Tony Robbins series for $75, etc, etc, etc and get the same info to make me a better person.
And please understand, I am not anti-AC... I am seriously interested in what they are doing and have taken some initial steps to learn and experience more... and may want to participate further with the company... but 20-yrs of corp business experience does not allow me to simply jump blindly with both feet. Research first. That's why I am trying to gain additional un-biased (ie. outside the AC family) input from good people like you to help me come to terms with this.
I have always been interested in wealth-generation opportunities, and evaluating the current offerings out there... I see some with similar potential... but with much less risk/initial investment. And possibly without the dis-tasteful baggage of getting OBSCENE/EXCESSIVE profits by means of other folks trying to get ahead by coughing up a whopping $10k.
CraigM... I'd be very interested in reading your article. Please let us know when it's published and posted on your paper's website for online viewing.
I understand your concerns perfectly. These 1-up and 2-up programs are great income opportunities for people with the ability to market them.
This marketing may be done in two ways: With integrity or without integrity.
There is potential to take advantage of naieve, desperate, foolish, hopeful people in the business, and frankly, there are some top recruiters that probably specialize in doing just that.
I have blown big sales by being brutally honest about the realities of what it takes to be successful marketing these businesses. Its rewarding, yes. But it is not for those:
who are terrified or risk.
who have an entrenched employee mentality.
who think they will build a successful business without developing real solid skills.
It strikes me that a person without much personal integrity could use the AC Christian platform to kind of whitewash what the business really is like and create a situation where the new customer feels scammed.
At the same time there may be the opportunity for a person a solid personal integrity to use AC as a great way to generate a solid income by assisting others to lead more complete and fullfilling lives.
Success among mature people is not measured by money but by the health and completeness of the world we create around us. People who are struggling to make it in life are attracted by money because it seems like the solution to all their problems. One guy I know shows a video of him throwing large amounts of cash on the floor. I choose not to market in such a way...
Because that is not how I choose to attract people to my business. I find it callow and vain. There are more elevated, though perhaps slightly less profitable ways to market.
As PT Barnum said "There is a sucker born every minute"
Whether we choose to build our businesses on Barnum's terms is strictly up to us as individuals.
I appreciate your candor. I too have had problems understanding what "product" Advantage Conferences provides for the $10,000.00 purchase of the MMC-IV seminar. I found the "use" of the Christian verbiage offensive and deceptive in the promotion of their program.
When I questioned the program's assumptions in other forums and directly by email to some of the reps, I was viciously attached as a "dream stealer", "schizophrenic", "loser" and "living from paycheck to paycheck" by supporters of AC.
As a Christian, I have a real problem with the company using the Christian message to "sell" you their program. You have laid out a good presentation of the risks involved and the effort needed. I personally know former AC reps who are embarrassed by the losses they experienced in the program. They put up the money but then were overwhelmed by the advertising costs and by not being prepared for what they need to do to be successful.
Even as the 1-up and 2-up program work when properly understood, it seems that only a few individuals can make the "big" money.
Separate names with a comma.