Keyword Advice?

Discussion in 'General Advice' started by wahl2008, Dec 29, 2008.

  1. wahl2008

    wahl2008 New Member

    Hi Everybody,

    What is the best approch to take concerning keyword choice for a new site?

    I Google related keywords and choose the ones that get the lowest search results. I try for under 1 million, but sometimes the popular ones are over. Is this a sound method for trying to obtain higher search ranking?

    I also use Google AdWords Keyword Tool. I chose the keywords that were searched over 5,000 times per month but less than 1 million, focusing on the ones that were receiving less advertising.

    I'd really love some advice on the topic!

    Does anyone know of a good tool, something like a keyword analyzer?

    Thanks everyone!

    Happy Holidays!
     
  2. getagrip

    getagrip Gold Member

    It really depends what you are marketing. As a general rule, its best to use keywords that consist of at least 3 or 4 words - the 1 and 2 keyword phrases are usually very un-targeted. For example, here are some keywords people used to find my site on model railroading:

    farm scenery ideas for model railroading
    model railroad bridge
    dual power control for n/gage model train set
    mrc tech ii railmaster for g scale
    model railroad farm scenery ideas
    ahm model #14 transrail
    model railroad power pack
    marx transformer 729
    christmas tree model railroad ideas

    Not what you would expect, huh? The better you can understand your customer, the more targeted your keywords will be.
     
  3. Newbie Shield

    Newbie Shield Gold Member

    Hi Philip,

    You've got the right idea. Obviously the number ranges will vary depending upon who you ask.

    Just make sure that there is demand with low competition. That's the main thing.

    Check out your competition for your key phrases to see what they are doing. This will also show you who you will be up against, which will help you decide whether or not the phrase is a good choice at this point in the game.

    Just type the phrase into Google and check out the top 10 results. If you see Wikipedia, Microsoft, and other heavy hitters occupying the whole first page, then forget about it.

    After you gain Page Rank, domain age, and have added more pages, you'll be able to compete at a higher level.

    You can use any tools you want - free and/or paid. Free tools work great if you know how to use them. Paid tools are a bit more convenient and give bigger "main lists". Even so, you can drill down with free tools anyhow.

    I use the free Google Keyword Tool every day and that is one of my favorites. To find free tools, just type "free keyword tool" and similar into Google. You'll find the first page of results is full of free tools that are all excellent:

    Google Tool
    WordTracker
    KeywordDiscovery
    SEO Book
    etc...

    A tool it just a tool. You have to know how to use it and why. It saves time and makes bigger lists. Be sure to master the fundamentals of online marketing before you go spending startup money on tools, especially when the free tools will give you more than you need to get going.

    I might suggest that you hold off on paid tools until you can use money from your online income to cover the cost.

    If you really need to check out a popular tool, you can check out the paid version of WordTracker on a 7 day free trial basis here:

    https://www.wordtracker.com/trial/

    That tool is probably the most popular paid service.

    ~Newbie Shield~
     
  4. wahl2008

    wahl2008 New Member

    To getagrip - Thanks for the good advice! I think that I can understand what the customer is looking for regarding my site. I used to be a potential customer looking for at home work. Through trial and error, I found real work at home opportunities and have been working from home for over one year now. So, I know what it feels like to try and sort through all of the bogus stuff and find the less than 5% that is legit.

    To NS - Thanks for the info! Checking out the competition is something that I need to put on my to-do list. I don't plan on investing in a paid keyword tool. Usually I can find free tools for everything that are just as good as paid.

    Obviously keyword choice is important, but how important is it?

    What I mean is, even if I choose a keyword 'work at home' which has a huge number of results, can I use it successfully with proper SEO?

    How would you rate the actual choice of keyword on a scale of 1-10 in regard to overall SEO success?

    Thanks guys!
     
  5. Homeboy

    Homeboy New Member

    There is another school of thought, however, which insists that we should jump right into the highly competitive / saturated markets because that is where the money is.... [​IMG]
     
  6. Homeboy

    Homeboy New Member

    wahl2008: What I mean is, even if I choose a keyword 'work at home' which has a huge number of results, can I use it successfully with proper SEO?


    Yes, with a lot of work setting up backlinks from other high ranking sites.

    Also, if you can make your content truly FANTASTIC and unique, you might be pleasantly surprised at how Google rewards you...
     
  7. wahl2008

    wahl2008 New Member

    Thanks Homeboy!

    Yeah, I'm interested in hearing more regarding that school of thought also. It sounds a bit daunting, but I thinks it's worth exploring.

    Yes, I've heard everywhere that Google rewards unique content more and more. I have a bit, but would like a lot more on my site.

    Time to get to work on it [​IMG]
     
  8. mountainmom5

    mountainmom5 Gold Member

    Newbie Shield: Just type the phrase into Google and check out the top 10 results. If you see Wikipedia, Microsoft, and other heavy hitters occupying the whole first page, then forget about it.

    I heartily agree - when I search for a keyword phrase and see blogs, articles and Squidoo lenses - then I know I will be okay.... my theory is if they can do it, I can do it.[​IMG]

    I have been doing online and seo marketing for 'work at home' stuff for over a year now and it is a tough market - very saturated... so you really need to get creative and find keyword phrases very unique to what you are offering in order to get organic traffic.
     
  9. wahl2008

    wahl2008 New Member

    Thanks for the input mountainmom5!

    I like your theory on blogs and lenses [​IMG]
     
  10. Newbie Shield

    Newbie Shield Gold Member

    wahl2008: ...What I mean is, even if I choose a keyword 'work at home' which has a huge number of results, can I use it successfully with proper SEO?

    How would you rate the actual choice of keyword on a scale of 1-10 in regard to overall SEO success?...

    Hi Philip,

    If you are able to outdo your competition, you may eventually be able to compete or even overtake them. When you are starting out, you need organic traffic, which means that keyword choice is critical to survival and campaign health.

    So, you can do both - use competitive keywords but knowing that it will be a while before you rank with them, and less competitive phrases where you will rank well early on (and presumably attract organic traffic with).

    Always thing longevity but be sure to use phrases that rank well quicker to draw visitors early in the game.

    Remember, organic traffic is free. Most people need as much free in the beginning as they can get.

    Once they get going, they can step it up by competing with tougher terms, spending money on tools, and spending money on PPC.

    Plan and execute things in well-defined phases backed by solid logic.

    Don't focus on money or you'll have difficulty getting off the ground. Your visitor is your main concern. Never forget that.

    In answer to your last question - early in the game - I would rate the actual choice of keyword phrases very high (8-10) and I would treat them accordingly.

    Later on, once you get a good-sized group of loyal, repeat visitors, the keyword phrases matter less and less over time. Still, always use them at least once in a while to draw new organic traffic.

    ~Newbie Shield~
     
  11. wahl2008

    wahl2008 New Member

    Thanks a lot for the good words!

    After having read you post, I have a question.

    Obviously I'm a newb at this, so if I choose keywords now and realize later that they weren't the right choices, can I change them without negative consequence? Am I married to the keywords that I choose in the beginning, or can they be fine tuned as I go?
     
  12. happywife

    happywife Gold Member

    Hi Philip,

    It's my understanding that it is not a good idea to change the keywords in the tags on your pages once they have been indexed.

    If you find you have chosen wrongly, instead of changing the pages you have, you would be much better off building more pages around the new keywords. [​IMG]

    Blessings,
    Angie
     
  13. Newbie Shield

    Newbie Shield Gold Member

    happywife: it is not a good idea to change the keywords in the tags on your pages once they have been indexed.

    If you find you have chosen wrongly, instead of changing the pages you have, you would be much better off building more pages around the new keywords.

    That's true - to rephrase what Angie just said: It's usually not worth the temporary SERP penalty. Once you do that, Google takes a while to reevaluate the meaning of the page and you get sandboxed for an uncomfortable duration.

    It's not that you "can't" do it, it's that you'll drop way down in the SERPs for a couple months or more if you do. Still, on rare occasion, you may decide that it's worthwhile to do so.

    It is in fact better to create a new page with the desired tags.

    The final decision is up to you on a case-by-case basis.

    ~Newbie Shield~
     
  14. lathalukose

    lathalukose New Member

    How to find a clickbank product that sells. I think I am very good at getting ones which don't. Getting clicks but no sales.
     
  15. Newbie Shield

    Newbie Shield Gold Member

    Hi Lathalukose,

    Pick one that is in your niche. Buy it. If you like it, your enthusiasm will show in your writing as you promote it.

    It helps quite a bit to check out the sales page. If it's a good page and the price is relatively good, you should be able to sell regardless of how popular the product is.

    It helps quite a bit if you know your topic and have purchased what ever you are offering for sale. You don't have to do this with everything but for some of your main items (definitely for your only item), you should purchase the product.

    ~Newbie Shield~
     
  16. DaveWalters

    DaveWalters New Member

    Some really good advice here on keyword research. I have been most successful when I kept it simple. I essentially follow 2 rules:

    1. Find a niche

    2. Find words clearly related with high demand and low supply

    In the end, just like everything else in economics, it all comes down to supply and demand and getting the most prominant position in the supply.
     
  17. damodar

    damodar New Member

    Hi,

    For a website that is just starting, it is better to go for a phrase that has terms with lower competition, but having more than 20 searches per day on Google. Ranking can be achieved faster, provided you select the Keywords that are highly relevant to the subject matter of your website. Also see that the number of competing sites with that exact keyword phrase is not exceeding 1,00, 000.

    Once the ranking is achieved for a less competitive words, it becomes easy to target the phases having more competitive keywords. Since you are already using Google AdWords Keyword Tool, to compare the results, you can also use the following Wordtracker keyword selection free tool at: http://freekeywords.wordtracker.com/

    Damodar
     
  18. andreaevens20

    andreaevens20 New Member

    Thanks for the tips i think this is the area where i most struggle perhaps this is why i have only made one sale.
     
  19. ZiggyZoo

    ZiggyZoo New Member

    Hello, me again

    Question ... if I by some unearthly chance i manage to come up with a keyword phrase that shows up as say :

    Why is a dog a dog man's best friend - it's GOD spelt backward

    Which turned out 6,630 results on google.

    Can i now use that heading for all of my articles or does each and every article have to have a different heading.

    Let me know your thoughts please.

    Thanks
     
  20. DaveWalters

    DaveWalters New Member

    You could do that, but it would slowly eat away at the value of that keyword over time. Each time you use that same keyword it becomes slightly less unique which makes it slightly less attractive to search engines. If you do this a few times it probably doesn't make much difference, but if you did it again and again with the same keyword, it would slowly dilute the uniqueness of the keyword.
     

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