It's feedback time!

I think you do an amazing job here Vishal and we do appreciate it. It is by far my favorite online hangout.

 

I understand that the rules are in place to prevent people from being overly self promotional, and I respect that. When people are overly self promotional, it can destroy a forum.

I'm really appreciative of the fact that certain things are not moderated. For example, when people ask questions about Wealthy Affiliate in the WA section of the forum, I don't worry about being moderated for recommending WA, and I appreciate that.

On the other hand, I think the moderations is getting a bit too strict in certain situations. For example, if someone wants a product recommendation, I don't feel that I can answer their question and recommend a product I believe in without getting moderated for it.

Should I just not answer their question if I'm promoting the product they are asking about? Should I ignore their question if it is an open ended question and I want to recommend something I believe in? If, instead, I decide to PM them about it because I don't want to break the forum rules by posting about it, I can get still get moderated for that too.

Also, I think the duplicate content rule is too strict. I understand that duplicate content can hurt rankings, but at the same time, when people respond to those threads, they are adding plenty of unique content to the duplicate content, which is going to increase SEO rankings and traffic for that thread. I've had threads that were deleted that could really help out a lot of people, but because I posted them elsewhere, people in this forum can't benefit from them. Isn't this forum about helping people out?

That's just my opinion. Like I said, if there are no forum rules, things can get out of hand, and you don't want people to promote something in every post they make.

On the other hand, if someone sincerely helps out others most of the time, but makes an occasional self promotional post when the situation calls for it, I would hope that person wouldn't get moderated for it, unless they say something like "take a look at the link in my signature" or something like that.

Well, that's my two cents. I like this forum a lot, but I felt the need to be honest in this post about the moderation since you were looking for honest feedback. I'm sure a lot of people feel this way but were too afraid to voice their opinions, so hopefully this thread will speak for them.

 

I'm pretty sure everyone knows that I love this forum. I've been a member a long time, and I spend enough time here!

However, I do have to agree with getagrip that, in some cases, the moderation/rules can be a bit too restrictive.

Of course I understand that there must be rules and they are there for a reason. An outright spammy forum is unpleasant at best.

As I see it, there are two sides to the coin. A forum owner/moderator makes money from all the quality content freely added by members/contributors, particularly long time members. As a member, I don't have a problem with that, because I've always felt it was a fair exchange.

I am able to help people who are in a position where I once was - completely green and thoroughly confused. If they decide to take my advice based on their perception of the help I've provided them and their review of my recommendations, I am able to earn some income from my commissions.

It's a win-win-win. The forum owner gets free content and Adsense income, etc., building his business. I develop a reputation for providing reliable help and earn a few commissions from time to time. The people I help out, get a genuine non-scammy start to their online career.

If it gets to the point where I can't provide genuine help to people unless I give up ALL personal gain in the exchange, I will have no incentive to continue spending my time and energy here.

It's no secret that people spend time in work at home forums to either learn something or market something. I've learned heaps in forums and have been marketed to by those people I learned from. To me, they've earned whatever benefit they receive because they took the time to help me out. Their time is valuable, just like mine is.

Yes, I would (and do) recommend the company I learned to build a business with regardless of earning a referral commission, but I wouldn't spend the amount of hours I spend in this or other forums just to be helpful without any incentive or return on my time investment.

I have a "ministry" that I do for free offline. My efforts online have been specifically to earn an extra income.

If someone comes to the forum and asks for helpful information and I know of an article, ebook, etc. that I can provide to them that will greatly help, of course I want to give it to them. AND, of course, I want to include an affiliate tracking code in case they decide it is indeed just what they are looking for and decide to go further with it and follow the advice given. That's reasonable and fair.

The dilemma is how to accomplish that? Yes, we have our signature links. But, you can't put everything in your signature link, of course. Everyone has different needs and comes at this from a different perspective. I have dozens of different helpful articles, etc., depending on where someone is at in their life and online process.

How can I convey to them that I have something that would help them without SAYING, "I have something that will help you?" I can't PM them, even if THEY say, "any advice is welcome" or "please help."

Many people who come to the forum are brand new to forums and have no idea about signature links, private messages, etc. If no one tells them, they don't know to ask.

I can't figure out what the harm is in telling someone, "I've got this. If you want it, just ask." I'm trying to see it from another perspective other than my own, but am struggling to get the full picture.

I'm a member of a private forum that is VERY strict. It's a great forum. But it's not the kind of forum where newbies come in "off the street" to ask general questions about how to get started with work from home opportunities or particular programs, etc.

Nor does that forum have Adsense or any other type of income generation for the forum owner. It is purely a private forum for members of a particular business building program where the members discuss their strategies and help each other out with technical stuff.

I guess my suggestion is that if you want to make this forum "that kind of forum," be clear about that. It will be a drastic change, if it's even possible to convert it over. But if that is your intent, it would be in all of our best interests to know it up front.

I've always considered this a forum that was open to appropriate "forum marketing." If it is no longer that way, which it seems is becoming the case, it is helpful to know that so that those of us who are interested in forum marketing can find other appropriate forums.

I didn't click on the poll because I could click all three of them for different reasons.

1. I have been pretty happy with the way things have been going.

2. It has been a bit harsher but manageable.

3. It has become very harsh lately, but only for some, it seems. Some threads that are ridiculously spammy, scammy, and/or self promotional seem to go on forever unchecked.

It's YOUR forum Vishal, so you have every right to make whatever rules and regulations you choose. I'd just like to know exactly the direction you are trying to take the forum so I can determine my future place in it.

Blessings,
Angie

 

Hi Vishal,

The rules are excellent as they stand. I wouldn't change a thing.

Angie and Keith,

Before the objections to the current rules really start to pile up, I'd like to point out that some members have a privilege or two that most others do not have:

1. A badge that both attracts attention and shouts "trust me" more than those without a badge. Obviously folks are more likely to click on the link of someone who has a badge.

2. They have an extra link leading to a site of their own choice, which also lends authority - especially due to the fact that the page is titled "Friends" - and increases the chance of a clickthrough here:

http://www.work-at-home-forum.com/friends.shtml

Furthermore, not all forums allow links to personal websites. That's a valuable privilege.

If what some members have just proposed comes to pass, many will abuse the privilege and it will certainly get worse with time. I've seen it happen on other forums.

As such, it would be complete folly to allow either drawing attention to signatures or to recommend a program no matter how helpful it may be.

Instead of suggesting a specific program or product, it's easy and effective to steer someone in the proper general direction by suggesting a Google search phrase or even offering a few specific tips along with it.

Every time a person posts, it's assumed that you fully believe in the link/links in your sig and that they may very well find the best answer by clicking on them. That's how a sig file works.

This is a forum. Forums are for learning, teaching, and socializing. Vishal has created several avenues for valuable members to get traffic and make money for their contributions. He's more done his part. I consider his structure to be very generous.

This place has great vibes and it's because of the carefully thought out rules that it runs so smoothly. You can't please all of the people all of the time, especially not in every single way.

I've been to other forums that are way too loose with their rules. Those places suck compared to here. They are unbearably unruly. I quit going to them entirely. Certain restraints are absolutely required to keep things functioning reasonably smooth.

Before you get worked up, please understand that you're very much underestimating the power a valuable member and their signature file. This is even more true for those who have a badge.

If you're really helping others, they'll click on your signature file. You'll get your visitors and you'll get more than compensated for your time spent posting on this forum.

The rules haven't changed as much as you think. They've been evolving over time. You just haven't looked at them for a while.

You're asking for the sort of utopia that doesn't and shouldn't exist. It wouldn't work. It would get out of control very quickly.

You don't sound very grateful and you might have sent some of the darker details to Vishal via PM instead of raking him over the coals like that.

~Newbie Shield~

 

Newbie Shield: As such, it would be complete folly to allow either drawing attention to signatures or to recommend a program no matter how helpful it may be.

Actually, I've tested this and I've had much higher conversions when I've made recommendations or suggestions for a specific program.

I'm not saying that passive signatures aren't effective for getting visitors, but generally speaking, when I've made recommendations, I've gotten better conversions.

Obviously, like I said, you shouldn't do that in every post you make, as this would get very spammy, but, like I pointed out above, I think this should be ok to do in certain situations.

Like Angie said, we are here to help people out, and we enjoy providing value to the forum, but we would be lying if we said that we were here for that SOLE purpose.

 

Vishal's forum rules provide nothing more than a framework to help him create a community that best reflects his ideals regarding this type of business model. When we sign on to become members, we are signaling our alignment with those ideals, for the most part. It is in the areas where these ideals overlap that we find disagreement.

Rules can be amended, and from time to time they have to be, in order to preserve the original charter or reshape it. And whenever that happens, we have an oppportunity to examine our personal positions in relation to the new parameters and measure where we lose or gain harmony. When we feel the threshold of compromise required in any realtionship has become untenable, is when we can choose to part ways.

Until then, as long as members are satisfied that at a minimum they are getting adequate value for their involvement, and are willing to live with the areas of conflict created by the very rules that govern them, I believe this community will continue to flourish.

As the sole administrator of this forum, with its following and visibility, I'm sure Vishal has his hands full keeping things under control. Sometimes things fall through the cracks. It's not a perfect world and he's only human. But if you were to make an objective assessment of what we have here, warts and all, most would agree that the Work-at-Home-Forum is still among the top communities of its kind on the Internet.

Hermas

 

I still consider myself not very knowledgeable about forums if I mess up it's an accident. So I hope I wouldn't get booted if I made a boo boo out of ignorance. And that goes for the others who may not know what they're doing.

I don't have any complaints but I may have not been here long enough to know what rules were like before. It doesn't seem as busy in the forum as it used to be.

One person making all the decisions has to be hard.
Sonni

 

As a testimony to my support of Vishal and to the current rules of this fine forum, I am removing my signature link.

I don't know when or if I will add anything to my signature file. But I don't have any plans for doing so within the next several months at least.

Though I could really leverage my Gold Member badge, I choose not to. Instead I would like to show that income doesn't have to be the main motive for interacting on this forum.

People need help and encouragement and I like this place. That's reason enough for me to participate.

~Newbie Shield~

 

Thanks for showing the numbers I stand corrected. Of course, I have no way to count I don't know why it seems like it's slowed down maybe it's me and I've slowed down.
Sonni

 

Newbie Shield: As a testimony to my support of Vishal and to the current rules of this fine forum, I am removing my signature link.

I would like to show that income doesn't have to be the main motive for interacting on this forum.

People need help and encouragement and I like this place. That's reason enough for me to participate.
Hi Shield,

That's quite a show of support and I applaud you. It demonstrates your selfless passion for helping others to get a better understanding of online marketing and Internet related matters. What a guy!

Vishal P. Rao: I'm not a dictator. I'm liberal enough. But if I sense that something is going out of control and may turn the course of the forum, then I have to tighten the reins a bit.
That's a fair statement. As administrator, you are constantly faced with making decisions that maintain a sense of fairness and balance. Some days must be easier than others I'm sure, and not every action can be expected to be met with unanimous approval.

But considering the valuable resource this forum has become for so many people, I'd say (and I'm sure many members would support me) you've been right more often than not. I can certainly vouch for the way you have handled yourself and your online activities over the years.

Going all the way back to before the Work-at-Home-Forum was even an idea; before Home-Based-Business-Oportunities became a first page fixture in Yahoo and Google search results, I came across an article written by a fellow named Vishal P. Rao.

The article was informative and easy to read. I followed the link in the resource box and signed up for the newsletter at the site. Each issue would focus on a single topic and I always learned something new. That was during the early developmental years of my online career, somewhere around 2002-2003 if I recall correctly.

Since then I've witnessed the changes, improvements, growth and success you've experienced. You have questioned, surveyed, listened, shared, and taught your way to where you are today. And you did it as the consumate professional, acting decisively when necessary and always respectful of the other person's opinion, especially when it was in opposition to yours.

Those are some of the qualities that have contributed to attracting the large following you enjoy today and the level of loyalty exhibited by Newbie Shield's bold and unselfish sacrifice.

What a gardener you have become!

Hermas

 

so far i like everything : )

its well organized

 

Newbie Shield: You don't sound very grateful and you might have sent some of the darker details to Vishal via PM instead of raking him over the coals like that.

Goodness me! Apparently my post was not read in the spirit in which it was written. I didn't know I wrote any "darker details" or that I was "raking him over the coals."

Vishal asked what we thought and I explained (in a very friendly tone of voice in my head) how I've been thinking about the changes and my perspective of the forum.

I'm "grateful" that I have been able to enjoy this forum for more than a year and I think anyone who has read my posts over that time would know that I've expressed my enjoyment and appreciation of the forum, Vishal, etc. throughout that time.

Because I use the Forums Checker feature regularly, I can certainly appreciate how much time it must take for Vishal to monitor the forum. It seems like a near full time job on some days.

Vishal P. Rao: If you still think you want more marketing leverage, then I'm sorry to say that you don't know what forums are for. Some forums don't even allow signature links! And like NS said, I have given you a link on my friends page and a special badge (of which I don't think you know the worth of).


I am well aware that not all forums allow signature links and that different forums have different purposes. I'm not as altruistic as NS, apparently, because I don't spend hours posting in those forums.

I was honored to be considered a friend of the forum and humbled and pleased to be given first a "preferred member" notation and most recently a "silver member" badge. Neither of those things did I ask for or pursue (not even knowing they were available), though I was tickled pink to receive them.

If they are to be used to place some sort of "hold" over me (which I don't think was the intent) I will find it harder to be grateful for them.

Vishal P. Rao:
happywife:
Some threads that are ridiculously spammy, scammy, and/or self promotional seem to go on forever unchecked.


I would appreciate if you could point me in that direction.

Off the top of my head I can think of the ASD section of the forum that went on and on sucking in gullible newbies until the Feds finally shut the company down and that section of the forum was eventually locked.

There are other threads that are of a similar nature that haven't taken off wildly in that vein - fortunately - but still contain the types of posts that you are describing. (And no, I do not have the time or inclination to go through and find them all for you).

And then on the other side of the coin is the Trivita "type" threads that are extremely self promotional in many cases. At least Trivita seems to be an established company so it isn't as distressing.


Newbie Shield: Though I could really leverage my Gold Member badge, I choose not to. Instead I would like to show that income doesn't have to be the main motive for interacting on this forum.

No, income doesn't have to be the main motive for interacting on this particular forum. But, the fact that it is a public work at home forum means that it most likely will be the main motive for most of us.

Many people are able to be motivated by more than one thing at the same time - earning an income for my family while being a blessing and help to others are my motivations for being here.

Perhaps, as you have suggested through some of your posts, you make plenty of money from your earlier online ventures that you are in a position to spend time here in the forum helping others without "monetizing" your efforts. That's wonderful, and I don't begrudge you that for a moment. Hopefully one day I will be in that position, too.

In summary, I admire and respect Vishal and his business. As I said in my previous post, it is his forum and he has every right to establish any rules or guidelines that he pleases. I would be extremely annoyed if someone tried to dictate to me how I must run one of my sites!

I have no desire or intention of doing that here. I was simply adding what I felt was a reasonable explanation of my perspective of the "forum rules and overall moderation" as requested.

I'm not a very confrontational person (that's putting it mildly), so if this post somehow manages to be give offense (completely unintended) I won't be jumping in again. I like a good friendly discussion/debate, but can't stand arguments. Fair enough?

Blessings,
Angie

 

Vishal, what's your problem! Just kidding...

I had thought about responding to some things above that you said, but I figured I'd let it rest.

Its understandable that you have had to change the rules, because if you didn't, things could get ugly fast.

So, that's my two cents and I'm sticking to it!

 

Sometimes even the best of us lose a bit of perspective and allow ourselves to step slightly out of line for a short time. It can happen to anyone.

It's difficult to see our own missteps and it sometimes helps if another person brings it to our attention by tactfully and gently holding up a mirror - perhaps with a little insistence - else we'd go along thinking we were behaving perfectly as always.

What really matters is how everyone handles the exchange and how well things function afterward. Since everyone was mature and respectful, things turned out well with the exchange and everyone was able to honestly express their opinions.

I really admire that and am grateful that it went over well (unless I'm mistaken about something).

I'd like to point out once again, that those graced with a badge have a privilege that those without a badge do not have. Yet with that privilege also comes a heightened responsibility.

Badge holders should know that they constantly represent the forum and are ethically bound to apply more filters to their speech and general attitudes than other members.

While no one is perfect and most of us will step out of line on rare occasion (I know I have and probably will stumble from time to time in the future), those who have a badge might honor that symbol and save the worst for PM only. Some things don't belong in public view.

Nicely done all. Keep up the good work. Thank you Hermas for your support and interesting story about how you found Vishal and this forum. Thanks to Vishal for a great community.

May the force be with us all

~Newbie Shield~

 

Newbie Shield: Sometimes even the best of us lose a bit of perspective and allow ourselves to step slightly out of line for a short time.

I certainly hope this doesn't imply that Angie and I were "out of line" by expressing our opinions. Things could have been said by PM, but sometimes its better to express feedback openly. I would ditch my "badge of honor" in a heart beat if it meant that free speech on this kind of thing would be censored.

My statements in my previous post were not meant to retract my original statements. Rather, they were expressed to show that I respect Vishal's decisions, regardless of whether or not I agree with them, and that I'm willing to move forward with the new rules in place.